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	<title>Comments on: Philosophical investigation</title>
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	<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/</link>
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		<title>By: GroovyDaddy</title>
		<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-992</link>
		<dc:creator>GroovyDaddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 23:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.koffice.org/?p=1177#comment-992</guid>
		<description>I like the KOffice stuff that I have used so far, including KWord, KSpread, and Kivio (I can&#039;t seem to find Kivio available for download anywhere now -- what happened?).  It is easy to use these applications for what they are meant to do.  The biggest opportunity that I&#039;ve seen is integration with Microsoft Office formatted files (.doc, .xls, etc).  In addition to working full time, I&#039;m also a full time student.  My university is Microsoft centric in their teaching and available applications, so I&#039;m using Microsoft Office for many of my reports, spreadsheets, presentations, and other documents.  I have had a lot of trouble pulling these file up in KOffice.

The office apps I&#039;m using now include OOo (in place of Microsoft Office), OpenProj (in place of Microsoft Project), and Dia (in place of Microsoft Visio).  All of my instructors know that I&#039;m a Linux guy, a KDE guy, and that I am definitely NOT a Microsoft guy.  I&#039;ve shown them KOffice, as well as the office apps that I&#039;m forced to use currently, and they have agreed to let me use them in place of the Microsoft stuff.  My sorrow is because I prefer KOffice to any of the office and production applications that I&#039;m currently using in look and feel, so I&#039;m excited to see my KOffice more stable!  :-)  I look forward to KOffice being more compatible with Microsoft formats soon so that I can use KOffice on a more regular basis that what I&#039;m able to use it now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the KOffice stuff that I have used so far, including KWord, KSpread, and Kivio (I can&#8217;t seem to find Kivio available for download anywhere now &#8212; what happened?).  It is easy to use these applications for what they are meant to do.  The biggest opportunity that I&#8217;ve seen is integration with Microsoft Office formatted files (.doc, .xls, etc).  In addition to working full time, I&#8217;m also a full time student.  My university is Microsoft centric in their teaching and available applications, so I&#8217;m using Microsoft Office for many of my reports, spreadsheets, presentations, and other documents.  I have had a lot of trouble pulling these file up in KOffice.</p>
<p>The office apps I&#8217;m using now include OOo (in place of Microsoft Office), OpenProj (in place of Microsoft Project), and Dia (in place of Microsoft Visio).  All of my instructors know that I&#8217;m a Linux guy, a KDE guy, and that I am definitely NOT a Microsoft guy.  I&#8217;ve shown them KOffice, as well as the office apps that I&#8217;m forced to use currently, and they have agreed to let me use them in place of the Microsoft stuff.  My sorrow is because I prefer KOffice to any of the office and production applications that I&#8217;m currently using in look and feel, so I&#8217;m excited to see my KOffice more stable!  <img src='http://www.koffice.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   I look forward to KOffice being more compatible with Microsoft formats soon so that I can use KOffice on a more regular basis that what I&#8217;m able to use it now.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Zander</title>
		<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-931</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Zander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 22:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.koffice.org/?p=1177#comment-931</guid>
		<description>@Karelien
Thats a good point you bring up, and one that actually should get some more attention.
One thing that obviously you need for such a flyer usecase is to have a good way to handle graphics. Vector graphics and bitmap graphics. Another is to have a good way to composite all these things together.

In KOffice things like vector graphics that Karbon uses are actually shared between all applications. You will essentially find that many of the tasks you need are available in Karbon as well as in all other applications. Including KWord. So I do see your point, but KOffice has brought sharing technology to a new level that your example of MSOffice is not even coming close to.
The majority of photo manipulation can be done in KWord too, although actual retouching and manipulations that a gimp or krita can do are not possible in KWord. This is mostly because the Krita guys say they don&#039;t want to allow editing of graphics using the KOffice component system.

Bottom line is that I think KWord is good for this usecase because a core component you need is a physical page size and a straight forward way to place content at specific locations on that page. Which is where KWord shines most.
The integration with real graphics applications is actually pretty smooth and you can even edit you vector graphics and colors and all right from inside KWord.

Now, your second example of using tables instead of kspread thats one example I fully agree with. Not only are KWord tables immature and not all that useful right now, the spreadsheet function is best left to the spreadsheet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Karelien<br />
Thats a good point you bring up, and one that actually should get some more attention.<br />
One thing that obviously you need for such a flyer usecase is to have a good way to handle graphics. Vector graphics and bitmap graphics. Another is to have a good way to composite all these things together.</p>
<p>In KOffice things like vector graphics that Karbon uses are actually shared between all applications. You will essentially find that many of the tasks you need are available in Karbon as well as in all other applications. Including KWord. So I do see your point, but KOffice has brought sharing technology to a new level that your example of MSOffice is not even coming close to.<br />
The majority of photo manipulation can be done in KWord too, although actual retouching and manipulations that a gimp or krita can do are not possible in KWord. This is mostly because the Krita guys say they don&#8217;t want to allow editing of graphics using the KOffice component system.</p>
<p>Bottom line is that I think KWord is good for this usecase because a core component you need is a physical page size and a straight forward way to place content at specific locations on that page. Which is where KWord shines most.<br />
The integration with real graphics applications is actually pretty smooth and you can even edit you vector graphics and colors and all right from inside KWord.</p>
<p>Now, your second example of using tables instead of kspread thats one example I fully agree with. Not only are KWord tables immature and not all that useful right now, the spreadsheet function is best left to the spreadsheet.</p>
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		<title>By: Karellen</title>
		<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-920</link>
		<dc:creator>Karellen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 11:32:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.koffice.org/?p=1177#comment-920</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t help but think that Susan would be better off using a different application than KWord for her flyers, e.g. Krita or Karbon. I get the feeling that a lot of people used Microsoft Word in the past for such a task because they had Microsoft Word installed on their PC, but no better graphics software than MS Paint, and obtaining better graphics software was not feasible because it cost money. People used a hammer to drive in a screw, because all they had was a hammer.

Is it worth spending time on optimising KWord to do what Krita or Karbon do better? Would it be worth spending time optimising KWord to help people maintain spreadsheets in KWord tables, or should we be trying to educate them to use KSpread instead?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t help but think that Susan would be better off using a different application than KWord for her flyers, e.g. Krita or Karbon. I get the feeling that a lot of people used Microsoft Word in the past for such a task because they had Microsoft Word installed on their PC, but no better graphics software than MS Paint, and obtaining better graphics software was not feasible because it cost money. People used a hammer to drive in a screw, because all they had was a hammer.</p>
<p>Is it worth spending time on optimising KWord to do what Krita or Karbon do better? Would it be worth spending time optimising KWord to help people maintain spreadsheets in KWord tables, or should we be trying to educate them to use KSpread instead?</p>
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		<title>By: slangkamp</title>
		<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator>slangkamp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.koffice.org/?p=1177#comment-905</guid>
		<description>@Fri13:

ODF isn&#039;t a formant that assures that a document will look the same in two different application. Even between MS Office and OOo is happens that text can have a different length. That&#039;s something that can&#039;t be completely avoided in practice.
Of course ODF compatibility gets improved all the time.

Unforunately that is mostly a Qt problem. We are waiting for Nokia to fix that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fri13:</p>
<p>ODF isn&#8217;t a formant that assures that a document will look the same in two different application. Even between MS Office and OOo is happens that text can have a different length. That&#8217;s something that can&#8217;t be completely avoided in practice.<br />
Of course ODF compatibility gets improved all the time.</p>
<p>Unforunately that is mostly a Qt problem. We are waiting for Nokia to fix that.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas Zander</title>
		<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Zander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 17:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.koffice.org/?p=1177#comment-902</guid>
		<description>@Fri13; one of the things that is in the list of the Susans requirements is fixing several usability issues. Among others making more pretty default templates.

What lead me to do this work is that I had the feeling people that are working on KOffice have been working on stuff they care about but will not really have too much of an impact on how many users will use the apps. For example working on fixing a rendering glitch in a high end feature like drop-caps is all fun, but not all that useful if people don&#039;t want to use the application because much more basic stuff is missing. Being able to hide the toolbox is indeed a good example.

The effect of documenting the milestone &quot;Susan&quot; and the other personas is that we are all clear that if there are no more tasks to support Susan we should focus on making things pretty and otherwise dotting the i&#039;s and crossing the t&#039;s. Making it perfect for one user (naturally without hurting others in the process) will make KWord much more usable for everyone.

I&#039;m looking forward to hitting that milestone, please lend a hand any way you can.  Userbase still needs a lot of attention for KWord, for instance :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fri13; one of the things that is in the list of the Susans requirements is fixing several usability issues. Among others making more pretty default templates.</p>
<p>What lead me to do this work is that I had the feeling people that are working on KOffice have been working on stuff they care about but will not really have too much of an impact on how many users will use the apps. For example working on fixing a rendering glitch in a high end feature like drop-caps is all fun, but not all that useful if people don&#8217;t want to use the application because much more basic stuff is missing. Being able to hide the toolbox is indeed a good example.</p>
<p>The effect of documenting the milestone &#8220;Susan&#8221; and the other personas is that we are all clear that if there are no more tasks to support Susan we should focus on making things pretty and otherwise dotting the i&#8217;s and crossing the t&#8217;s. Making it perfect for one user (naturally without hurting others in the process) will make KWord much more usable for everyone.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to hitting that milestone, please lend a hand any way you can.  Userbase still needs a lot of attention for KWord, for instance <img src='http://www.koffice.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Fri13</title>
		<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator>Fri13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.koffice.org/?p=1177#comment-901</guid>
		<description>I wonder on what group I would fit because my demands would be:

1) I can share ODF documents (text) with any OpenOffice.org user.
Right now not even the simplest text format is not preserved with same fonts. The text is few letters shorter, text is bigger with same font+size and very specific order formated documents gets rendered wrong in KWord. 

2) The fonts looks ugly (there came fix for that in the development version (git?) release) and should be better way to be antialiased and managed.

3) My one big visual problem is that the document does not look good in the application. I must admit that the visual look is not so high in the developers to-do list. But it is something what draws normal user attention. The document should have shadow, it should be flexible so it has good space between the application edges and have a flexible space between document pages (possible to tweak to be a 0-25.4mm).

4) Possibility to hide the menubar. Me and my friends have all the needed functions in the sidepanel. The menubar is just taking space, especially in the netbooks what class of portable computers are very much used in schools).

Technical missing features? Not so much, only standard support and the &quot;eye candy&quot;..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder on what group I would fit because my demands would be:</p>
<p>1) I can share ODF documents (text) with any OpenOffice.org user.<br />
Right now not even the simplest text format is not preserved with same fonts. The text is few letters shorter, text is bigger with same font+size and very specific order formated documents gets rendered wrong in KWord. </p>
<p>2) The fonts looks ugly (there came fix for that in the development version (git?) release) and should be better way to be antialiased and managed.</p>
<p>3) My one big visual problem is that the document does not look good in the application. I must admit that the visual look is not so high in the developers to-do list. But it is something what draws normal user attention. The document should have shadow, it should be flexible so it has good space between the application edges and have a flexible space between document pages (possible to tweak to be a 0-25.4mm).</p>
<p>4) Possibility to hide the menubar. Me and my friends have all the needed functions in the sidepanel. The menubar is just taking space, especially in the netbooks what class of portable computers are very much used in schools).</p>
<p>Technical missing features? Not so much, only standard support and the &#8220;eye candy&#8221;..</p>
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		<title>By: AndrejT</title>
		<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-899</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrejT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.koffice.org/?p=1177#comment-899</guid>
		<description>For me the only thing that is missing in KWord for it to become usable for me is better support for creating and editing tables. Other things already work very nicely for my usage pattern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me the only thing that is missing in KWord for it to become usable for me is better support for creating and editing tables. Other things already work very nicely for my usage pattern.</p>
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		<title>By: mutlu</title>
		<link>http://www.koffice.org/blogs/thomaszander/philosophical-investigation/comment-page-1/#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator>mutlu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 15:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.koffice.org/?p=1177#comment-898</guid>
		<description>Nice overview. Thank you for sharing the persona-based roadmap. This gives much more of an insight into where KWord is right now than anything else I have read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice overview. Thank you for sharing the persona-based roadmap. This gives much more of an insight into where KWord is right now than anything else I have read.</p>
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